Podcast | In Good Company: How To Attract & Retain The Right People For Your Business | Allan Wilson & Emma Montgomerie, Wilson Partners

Written by Dave Seddon on 04 Aug, 2023

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Transcript

Dave: Hi, and a very warm welcome to the changemaker podcast series, where we talk to businesses about real-life challenges they face as they go through change and transformation. Today's topic is particularly focused on meeting the challenges of growth with regards to both recruitment and retention. We are, if you read recent reports, in an employee-led environment, and according to the Office of National Statistics, for the first time since records began, we’re at a place where there are more jobs than people and over 1.3 million vacancies. Staggering really when you think about it.  

So my name is David Seddon, and I'm joined today by Allan Wilson and Emma Montgomerie from Wilson Partners. 

Wilson Partners are an established team delivering value-added accounting, tax and corporate finance solutions. They've experienced significant growth over the last few years, and it's actually about this growth that I want to talk to them about today, and the impact this growth is having on both their recruitment and retention strategies. Allan is one of the founding directors at Wilson's and Emma is Head of Employee Experience. 

A huge welcome to you both.  

So, Allan, I guess my first question is a little bit more directed at you really. We've known each other for quite a number of years now, but when we first met, there probably wasn't a role in your business responsible for Head of People Experience. So what brought you to that point where you needed this really very key role?

Allan: Thank you, David.

It's a good question. I guess from having started the business from scratch, you wear the hat of everything. So our first 'Head of People Experience', even though we didn't have one, was me. And as we grew the business, obviously, things evolved, and probably about four or five years ago, one of our fellow directors, Dan James, took that mantle to push on what we do on the people side of the business. Fast forward to this time last year, and we embarked on a strategy to make some acquisitions and turbocharge our growth. And as a business that puts people right at the centre of everything we do, for us, it was highly important that that first key strategic hire was around the people. And that's where we essentially put together our thoughts as to, we didn't want an HR function or a head of HR, it was quite deliberately about the Head of Employee Experience. So everything that an employee or team member of ours experiences as part of Wilson Partners. 

Dave: Okay, good. And Emma, you've now been here six months, and actually, one of the first questions I want to ask you is what first attracted you to Wilson Partners?

Emma: So for me, I knew in my head I was looking for something different. So I've done a number of, I guess, traditional HR-type roles over my career, and culture is massively important to me so I was looking for my next move to be a massive part of it. It was really, I guess, I wanted to work somewhere where people really were the focus. So, again, I've been in various businesses where people say, 'We put people at the front of everything we do', and I think there's a difference between saying it and doing it. And I think right through the recruitment process, you know, from when I first started talking about the role, when I came in for my interview, I got a real feel that actually Wilson Partners does what it says it does in terms of people. So it was that culture piece and putting people at the front of everything they do that was really key for me.

Dave: And actually, I think that's a really good point you make. So, at six months in, on reflection, what have you found since you've been in?

Emma: So I can honestly say it's been everything I've expected and more in terms of what I wanted from a company and what I wanted from a role. I feel massively that I am really making a difference in terms of people's lives and their actual employee experience. So it isn't about the traditional HR stuff that I'm used to doing, it is much more about how am I improving the employee experience for people? How am I getting the best out of people? What are we doing in terms of their careers and their work-life balance? And I'm looking at that as the bigger picture for everybody, really.

Dave: Okay, so my next question is going to be a little bit unfair on you because you've only been here six months, but going through the growth that you're going through at the moment with a combination of acquisitions and organic growth, and given where we are in the industry at the moment, with more jobs than people, what's your recruitment strategy?

How are you attracting people to Wilson Partners?

Emma: We're trying to offer something different. I think that's the main thing. We know that there's this war for talent. We know, in terms of our growth plans, we need to retain our people and we need to attract the right people. And it's not just about salaries; it's about what we can offer in terms of culture and our reward and recognition package as a whole. So, it's developing our brand within the marketplace, showing that we do look after our people. We're here to develop careers, you aren't just a number to us, and it's that bigger picture that we're trying to get across as people come in which will set us apart from other similar businesses

Allan: I think on that point around attraction, a large part of our marketing effort is actually aimed at attracting team members - it's not just about new clients. So our website acts as a front door or window to potential candidates to show what our brand is about and attract people to us. 

Dave: It's probably as financial as I get, but I guess your two biggest assets are both your clients and your people then?

Allan: Correct. And I am a firm believer that if we've got a really engaged workforce that are up for it, getting the development opportunities that they want, getting treated in an open and trusting way, then they will look after our clients very, very well.

Emma: I think we get people to share in our journey, we get people excited about the journey we're on, and actually what that creates in terms of opportunity. And I can say that from a personal point of view, coming in as a new person, I'm excited about the journey.

Allan: I think on that point around attraction, a large part of our marketing effort is actually aimed at attracting team members - it's not just about new clients. So our website acts as a front door or window to potential candidates to show what our brand is about and attract people to us. 

Dave: It's probably as financial as I get, but I guess your two biggest assets are both your clients and your people then?

Allan: Correct. And I am a firm believer that if we've got a really engaged workforce that are up for it, getting the development opportunities that they want, getting treated in an open and trusting way, then they will look after our clients very, very well.

Emma: I think we get people to share in our journey, we get people excited about the journey we're on, and actually what that creates in terms of opportunity. And I can say that from a personal point of view, coming in as a new person, I'm excited about the journey.

Dave: Okay, and one of the things I was going to ask about recruitment or the process that you go through, I mean, we both, Allan, are from an environment where networking has been very important to us. And I was reading something on the BBC news website today about a guy who said he was just desperate for staff, and he placed all these different ads and used recruitment agencies to try and find somebody to no avail. And in the end, he found a person via a referral.

So how much do you use referrals in your own business? And if so, do you think it's of any benefit?

Allan: It's definitely a benefit. Because it's a bit like a referral from a client, you often see that they'll have the same sort of values that you do, and therefore a good fit. It's fair to say we use recruiters quite a lot still, and certainly at the more junior end. So, the trainees that we're bringing on board, we work with some fantastic recruiters that get us as a business and understand the type of people that would fit in with us. Where it's a little bit more challenging is at the more senior end, and I think that's where the power of the network can help. And we've had a couple of recent new joiners that have come through our staff network, which is something that we continue to exploit and encourage our staff to be thinking about constantly. 

Dave: Okay. And you said one of the things about the agency you use is that they just get your culture. So they're not just placing people who have got a skill set, it's about whether they fit within the culture of your business as well.

Emma: That's right. We're very selective about the agencies that we use, we don't have a huge amount, you know, we ensure that people really get to know us as a business. As Allan said, it's the values, isn't it? We want people with the same values as us to come into the business because that's what's going to work for us. So yeah, I think we build those relationships with those that are recruiting for us so they really get it. 

Dave: Okay. So as the shortage of staff becomes even greater, what do you think you'll have to do differently to attract the top talent? Or is there anything you think you'd need to do differently?

Emma: We're always thinking about how we can do things better and what we can do differently, and I think we are very collaborative in terms of our working environment and with the people that work for us. We're always looking for that feedback because our current employees can tell us a lot about what people are looking for, what's important to them, what motivates them. So I think because we work in such a collaborative environment, and we're always looking for that feedback, we are already on that track to keep evolving the way that we do things and keep changing.

The hybrid stuff wasn't just about covid for us, we'd already started on that journey anyway, in terms of that flexibility. So we are always trying to think ahead. Okay, what can we do next? What can we do differently? And just trying to be a bit more creative. In terms of things like our recruitment, we do use a lot of agencies, so how can we build a little bit more in terms of that network and those referrals? And how can we build our brand within the marketplace? So there's all this stuff going on in the background with our marketing and feedback we're getting to continually improve that. 

So, I wouldn't say there have been any radical changes, but I think it's something that we're just on that journey and we're always thinking about.

Dave: So you've covered a lot of things. And I think even when you're using some of your suppliers more as partners, rather than suppliers, just that subtlety can make a huge difference because they feel as if they are part of your business.

Allan: I think the other thing to think about is, yes, attraction is great, but retention is also hugely important. I think we referred to it earlier around that filling the leaky bucket, and it's exactly the same as with clients. There's no point in going and winning lots of new clients if they're leaving you six months later because the service is really poor. And it's exactly the same with the team. So if we're building an environment where people are engaged, doing good work for good clients and there are opportunities for development, we'll keep our team together for longer. And the more we can then get the employer brand out there through things like LinkedIn, other social media, that all helps build that story and attract people.

Dave: Well, you must have read my mind on a few things then, because as you said, it's one thing to bring them into your business, but yeah, how do you retain them? You seem to be looking after your people well, but how do you keep them within your business?

Emma: I think we get people to really buy into the business in terms of they're not here just for a job. You know, I always hate saying this as it sounds a bit cheesy, but they buy into that, I guess, that family feel that we have here at the moment. And we don't ever want to lose that. And I think there is this real sense of loyalty. We have a huge amount of people in business that have been here a number of years, we're continually on that feedback path, we regularly survey our staff, and we're always thinking, okay, what can we do differently? What can we do to retain you?  

So we're about to introduce, for example, a new benefits package, and that's after feedback that we've got from our staff. It's literally that, I would say in terms of how we do it, it's all around that communication piece. So we make it a real collaborative environment. And I think people are less likely to walk away from that. Sometimes in a bigger business, they get less of a say, they might press something and it doesn't always get followed up. They know here, everything they say is taken seriously. And actually that we follow up on everything we do. We're always talking about you've said this, this is what we've done. You know, it's always the you said, we did example.

Dave: Well, I mean, you touched upon it when I very first asked you the question about what attracted you to Wilson Partners and it was not just words up front, it was about doing it. And looking at some of the engagement stuff you've just talked about, it's not just asking for feedback, it's about actually, once you get it, what you do with it that often makes the difference.

So can you talk us through a couple of examples of feedback that you've had and enacted upon?

Emma: Yeah, I mean, just one of my big projects coming in was just to look at how we reward people. We were a small business that's grown quite rapidly so it was really important for us to look at, okay, are we rewarding people the way that we should be? And we didn't want to just go in with a blanket approach and say, "Okay, we're gonna start doing X, Y, and Z for you". We actually surveyed our staff, we looked at market data, we talked to our recruiters, and actually, we then were able to collate all of this feedback and then go back to the business and say, "This is what motivates you, this is what you've told us, this is then what we're going to do for you". So from the beginning of September, we've had a whole new comprehensive package that makes it much more flexible in terms of people's lifestyles and where they are in terms of their own circumstances. So that's been a massive thing that we've done in terms of feedback. 

And then I think just the career piece as well. We're working on a Wilson Training Academy now, and again, we've talked to people, we've had sessions together where we've talked about what they want to see in the business in terms of their training and their development, and we do that on a regular basis. And now we're working on a much more structured framework for the year going forward. And there'll be opportunities for people to develop as managers, to develop as leaders, develop certain skills that they want to look at. So there's so much going on, but all based on the feedback that those guys have given us.

Dave: Well, I want to come on to that. Because I was reading a recent report by a company called Degreed, and they said a massive 46% of responding professionals agreed that they were more likely to leave the business if they didn't see a commitment to upskilling or retraining. I mean, that's a huge percentage. So you already touched upon some of the training stuff, but give me a little bit more background on that upskilling, training and development stuff, bringing people through the business.

Emma: Yeah, I think we're very conscious that there is this difficulty in recruiting new senior people within the business, and obviously, with that whole succession planning piece, something we're really keen on doing is upskilling from the bottom. So when people come into the business, they can see a clear career path. And we want to make that much more visible to people. So when they come in, they say, "Well, you know, this is what I want to do with my career. And this is how I can get there". And we already do a lot, you know, we support our trainees through all their studies, we give a lot of study leave, we have an external coach that comes into the business - and he coaches all levels of the business - we have new specific sales training going on, we have management development staff, we have soft skills, we have lots of different things. And like I said, now, it's about bringing it all together so that we are actually developing our leaders of the future and we can make sure that people can get the most out of their careers. 

I've been reading some stats, and Deloitte did a survey that showed 10% of people working in the finance industry weren't planning on being there long term. And we want to do something different. We want people to come into the business and see a real career here. And so that's all part of that journey.

Dave: And do you think enjoying what you do is important?

Emma: Massively. And again, this is a really different business to where I've worked before. And I think I've seen businesses try and get that balance and struggle, but I think here, if you talk to anyone in this business, they’ll say they love working here. I think there's a real balance of people working really hard, but they do have that social side of it. We have a well-being team as well, that focuses on how we can make sure that the health and well-being of our employees is looked after throughout the year. So there are loads of initiatives around that. And I think, yeah, people see it as a fun place to work. But on the flip side of that, it's somewhere where they can come and develop a great career.

Dave: And the other thing I wanted to touch upon was about internal recognition, and not always recognition in terms of, I guess, money in a business, which is important, but you know, that sort of recognition where someone just gives you a pat on the back to thank you for going above and beyond. What do you do in that space?

Allan: One of the things we introduced probably about four or five years ago was a tool called Clear Review, which essentially, for us, replaced the annual appraisal process which everyone hates. And we wanted something that was a lot more agile, real-time, regular sessions to think about performance objectives, learning development plans, but also feedback. And as part of that tool, you can provide feedback - whether it's motivational or what we call developmental feedback. Obviously, you provide the feedback to the person verbally but then follow up through the tool to provide a record of that piece of work that's been done really well or some feedback that needs to be given. That then feeds into two things. One is our weekly Monday morning, where we have star of the week. So that's a meeting that everyone's on for 15 minutes in the morning and star of the week gets nominated for a particular thing that's noteworthy for them from the previous week. It also feeds into our quarterly awards. So as part of our quarterly team meeting, we have awards given out that are aligned with the values of the business. And so all the Clear Review data gets collated to pick those winners and demonstrate why someone's done really well against one of the values in the business.

Emma: Obviously, Allan's also talked about the quarterly awards, and they do get a lot of positive feedback. I think they do what we want them to do in terms of recognition. But I think the other great thing is that it allows us to give back. So, as part of the B1G1 project, each employee that wins an award is then able to give a monetary value to a charity of their choice. So we can actually give back as part of those awards, which I think generally employees are really keen on now as well. So that's a real selling point.

Dave: So one of the things I want to come on to next is we're coming to the end of things like covid and the impact that it's had. And certainly, I've found from a work context, it's pushed the industry significantly further than it would have done in probably 10 or 15 years of growth through HR and similar. I guess it's given a lot more flexibility to both the workforce and employers and there's a bit of a pendulum, but I think it will find its medium at some stage.

But given your growth and the fact that you've got other offices as well, how are you keeping the culture flowing across multiple sites? And also, the second part of the question is, how has Covid impacted you guys in terms of flexible work?

Allan: I was gonna take that first bit, the covid flexible working piece, I guess before - and Emma alluded to this earlier around the move towards hybrid working coming before covid - pre-covid, generally, we had a desk for every person, whether it was used or not was almost irrelevant. But that's a natural inhibitor of growth, if we get another person, we need more space, we have to move. So we knew we were going to be moving to essentially hot desking for pretty much everyone. What covid allowed us to do was to turn that tap on straightaway in one day, and have essentially no resistance from anyone that's thinking "I don't like hot desking". Overnight, we had it in place. So that probably saved us 12-18 months of going through a process of evolution of moving to that way of working, which now means that we are what are 50% bigger in the main head office now than we were pre-covid, but with the same number of desks. So it just allows us as an employer to be a lot more flexible and utilise the space better.

Dave: And back to the retention. I guess it gives you flexibility with your employees as well, like the fact that they don't have to be in that place of work to work. 

Allan: There are definitely things that get done better out of the office, and there are things to get done better in the office. And it's about having that purpose to come to the office - is there social interaction with your teammates? Is it for team meetings? Client meetings? What is that purpose?

Emma: Yeah. Keeping the culture across multiple sites is a challenge. And I think the bigger we get, it'll become more of a challenge. But we're really keen to make sure that we do keep our culture because we're really proud of it. But I think what we've done so far in terms of our acquisitions, the key part for us has been around communication. As soon as we buy a business, for example, we're in there straight away. And we are getting to know those people, we are talking to them about our business, again, getting them excited about the journey that we're on, you know, we're all in it together. It's that reassurance piece. And then I guess from there, it's about how do we bring them as part of the team? So yes, we are separate offices. But you know, for our quarterly meetings, we'll make sure that we're all together for that and there'll be a social around that. We have representatives from each acquisition in terms of our well-being team and our social team. And we try to mirror what we're doing at different offices at different times. We have working between teams, so we're making sure that the communication is there constantly and people feel as included as possible.

We also ensure that we're actually being as inclusive as possible by just simple things like Teams meetings as well as face-to-face. We don't want to lose face-to-face because it gives us great networking and relationship building but yeah, where we've got, for example, colleagues in South Africa, we have to think about what we do a bit differently. It's about just thinking and being a little bit different in terms of what we're offering in terms of our comms making sure that we're just finding ways to bring people together in different ways.

Allan: I think the other thing just to add in there is around the businesses that we bring into the group, we look at their culture and what they are about as a business. 

Dave: I was just going to ask you, because I know when we were talking before, and you were going through some of the acquisitions, one of the things you said was massively important to you wasn't just the balance sheet and what the numbers look like, it was that cultural alignment fit with your business that was a key determining factor of whether you went for them or not.

Allan: Absolutely. And that's something we try to establish quite early on in the process and obviously continue to work on as we go through due diligence. But yeah, if that cultural piece isn't there, we don't go forward at all. And there's been a number where the culture just hasn't been right so we haven't progressed anything. So that then makes it a lot easier when they are part of us to have that cultural alignment. And hopefully, keep a lot of what they've got internally today and we can then just layer on some additional stuff that can take it from good to great. And conversely, I think, you know, from experience as well, if you don't get that culture right when you're buying companies, you spend the vast majority of your time trying to work something through which doesn't quite fit. It's like fitting a round peg in a square hole. It just takes an inordinate amount of time. Absolutely. And we've got real experience of it right now, where, essentially, you don't want to be dragging people through a process to bring them into your culture. Actually, you want them to be sitting there basically dragging it out of us, which is exactly what's happening, which is fantastic, to be honest. 

Dave: Okay. And as we really come to the end of this session now, and it's no less important, I just wanted to touch upon diversity in the workforce.

And I know, Emma, you're new to the business, and that there are lots of things going on, but what are your joint thoughts on diversity within the business and encouraging that sort of environment?

Emma: So I would say, yeah, it's going to be definitely a massive part of what we're doing going forward. I think we do have some ambitious growth plans for the business. And I think as part of that, we need a diverse workforce. We all know that a diverse workforce is massively important to get that high-performing business. You need that diversity in any business. And actually, I think we are, I wouldn't say that we have any, I guess, formal strategies in place at the moment. But I think it's something that we will definitely be looking at as part of our overall people strategy going forward, and just ensuring that we are diverse, we are inclusive, we are making sure that everybody in our business has a voice. And when we're recruiting, how can we do things maybe slightly differently to create more opportunities for different people? That will be a massive part of our recruitment strategy going forward.

Allan: Yeah. And I think it's interesting when you think about the growth of the business, because small businesses are very different from big businesses when it comes to diversity both practically but also in terms of policies. As a small business, you don't often have the ability to think about diversity, you hire the best person for a job. And because you're only a few people big in terms of the firm, you won't have that diversity that naturally comes as you get bigger. So I think one of the opportunities we've got, certainly at the senior team level for us, is more diversity around the senior management of the business, which I think is quite exciting for us. 

Dave: Okay. Well, thank you very much. It's just great to see how the business has grown over the years and the culture that you're adopting. So, thank you very much.

Allan: Thank you.