Podcast | From Struggle to Strength: Jason's Path to Purpose with Jason McMahon from Sport in Mind

Written by Dave Seddon on 11 Dec, 2023

Listen to the full series on Spotify.

Transcript

Dave: Hi, and a very warm welcome to the changemaker podcast. We've talked about various themes over our previous podcasts, from leadership and recruitment to retention and career journeys, but today I want to talk about mental health. 

On the 10th of October, we celebrate World Mental Health Day. And it is a subject we need to talk about a lot more to become aware of some of the signs that are around us. It has been something that I've experienced in my own family to, actually, devastating effect. And it's therefore with great pleasure that I welcome Jason McMahon, from the charity Sport in Mind, an amazing charity that's all about transforming the lives and mental health of children and adults through sports and activities. 

So huge welcome, Jason, and many thanks for your time today.

Jason: That's great. Thank you for the invitation, Dave.

Dave: So just as a way of an introduction, can you give us a little bit of background to you and your backstory?

Jason: I actually left school with hardly any qualifications. At 15, I ended up working at a local hardware store. And for me, it was just an escape. I was not well treated at school, and I was bullied at home, so I just needed to leave and escape. So I ended up working at the hardware store, and actually found that I was quite uncomfortable being there as well. So I used my experiences there to move on to a local DIY store, and then found myself working in the paint section. And I looked at the environment that I was in, and I thought if I stay here, this is my path, my duty manager is where I will probably end up, and that wasn't where I wanted to be. 

I realised I’d probably missed opportunities and qualifications through education, so I took myself off to college to study for a mechanical electrical qualification BTEC. But within that, it gave me a background of qualifications so that I could actually expand my work and look elsewhere. And found an opportunity to work for a company that manufactured control panels. And I was working on the design of their cable diagrams, and then fast-tracked into mechanical engineering with an air conditioning company, and I did that for a few years. And then very, very strangely, I found myself working for Seiko. I applied for a job with them as a Junior Warehouse/ Technical Assistant, and when watches were sent back my job was to see where we could fix them. And whilst I was there, I was captain of my local rugby club. So I was about 24 years of age. And my manager at the time said, “Jason, have you ever thought about getting into sales?” And I sort of said, “No, it's not really something I've thought about before.” He said, “Well, you're a really good people person, if you've got any time off, come and work with me for a week and just see how we get on.” 

So I ended up taking two weeks off. And by the end of the first week, he offered me a job. So I left Seiko and then joined his company, which was a reprographics company just selling paper and print services.

Dave: Did you even know anything about sales at that stage? And did it click with you that other than being good with people, you'd be good in sales?

Jason: No, what I found very, very quickly is it's a lot of door knocking and a lot of noes. You know, when you're selling something in such a competitive market, there was a lot of rejection, and it built resilience. 

So I had no experience in sales at all. I built my own way of going about things. And very much what I found was it’s about finding opportunities, taking the knocks on the nose and using that as one move closer to a yes or no conversation. So that was a really hard slog that built up resilience and understanding of the hard work involved. Sales is a numbers game, and then obviously a people game. So I found it quite difficult. 

And eventually, after a period of time, I had built up experience within that sales environment and found what I felt was a more interesting, creative role working for a company that designed and manufactured modular exhibition stands and that became a little bit more passionate to me as I could use some creative skill sets I had. And I really enjoyed that, and the commission was there, but it was really competitive. So I started learning about KPIs and targets and the shortfalls of not hitting targets, and it became quite an uncomfortable environment because of the amount of pressure that you were put under. 

Because my background is in sport, I started looking for something a bit more interesting within the sales world, and I found a company in Wales called Parasport, which manufactured specialist commercial fitness equipment with a range of inclusive products. It was such a passionate, purpose-driven environment to be around. But also working in the health and leisure sector, it's quite a friendly environment to be in, and you meet a lot of new people as well. So by building up relationships, and having that sort of trust and integrity, I went from quite a junior role to a regional role within a few years. And obviously, within sales, part of the benefit suite is that you can earn some commission. So I was looking to earn almost double my salary through commission but then found you go from 37 and a half hours to actually, when you're out on the road, you're working 30/40/50/60 hours.

Dave: So you were very driven.

Jason: Yeah, I guess I've always been very personally target-driven in what I do, how I manage myself. So knowing that you're putting the hours in to achieve targets. But I guess from a sales environment where you're used to KPIs and targets, then yeah, I was always looking to achieve success on that side as well. At least that's what I thought I was driven by,

Dave: You say, ‘thought you were driven by’, so what's changed? 

Jason: I remember - and this is going way back - when I was working for an air conditioning company, I used to have to get a bus across town to a train, get a train, then spend half an hour on the train, then jump in the car and come all the way back almost passed my front door with the commissioning engineer. And I thought, now I'm gonna sit this through, I set myself my goal and I wanted to earn £4.50 an hour. That was my goal in life, that's where I wanted to be. So I went from that mindset to working in sales, then my mindset was I want to earn £100,000. That's where I see myself being. So I was very much driven by achieving that. 

And I left the company that I'd been at for seven years or so because unfortunately they were going into receivership, and found an equal company and progressed with them. And again, the pressures, the hours, the stresses, but again, you were well rewarded for your success. And I was coming up to 30/35 years of age and earning a good salary and the commission so that you've got the things that you can buy, I thought that's what I wanted to strive towards. But then I also found that I was working 50/60 hours a week, and actually, my quality of life, my marriage wasn't good. And my marriage was breaking up. But I was still striving to achieve.

Dave: Was that pressure you put on yourself or the business put on you?

Jason: I think both. I think both the business and the fitness sector were going through certain stresses and pressures in their own targets, so they were forced on the sales team as well. But yeah, I guess from a personal perspective, to have a nice house and to have a comfortable life was where I was pushing myself to be. And once I secured those things, very quickly I lost those things based on the pressures I put myself under.

Dave: So what happened next then?

Jason: I was probably just approaching 40 years of age, you know, I’d spent almost 20 years within the health and fitness sector, and I got offered a position to launch a brand new product. So I'm very independent as well and I’ve always wanted to work for myself, and I got an opportunity to launch new products into the fitness market. And I worked with them for a year and a half to test it to the market, and then found the product itself needed lots of redesigning before they pressed the button for mass production, and then went back to the board and said, “You know, these are things that the market is saying need to be changed.” And they decided, actually, it's not worth the investment to take it forward. 

So I was made redundant. And at that time of being made redundant, I’d recently bought a house, got married and had a son. And then once I stepped away from work, I saw that my marriage was actually breaking up. And I grew up in a rugby culture, and I guess with unprofessional rugby back then it was very much a drinking culture. So having been made redundant, my marriage was in poor condition, I found myself at the Rugby Club. And I found myself drinking. And from that position, things definitely spiralled. I ended up leaving the family home, so obviously, I left my young son, left the house that I’d dreamed of having and the marriage that I dreamed of having as well. And I found myself in a very lonely, isolated place, which is not a good place for anyone to be at that point.

Dave: And when you were going through what sounds like an incredibly difficult period, what level of support did you get at the time? If any?

Jason: Yeah, this is the thing. And, you know, we're talking 13 years ago now. I had no understanding of what mental health was or how to reach out or even recognise it within myself. 

I'm a lifelong member of my local rugby club; I played Captain in the first team, I was a bubbly and happy character. My friends were coming up to me and saying, “Jase, we know you're going through some problems. Are you okay?” And they were asking me in a rugby club where you're already in a noisy bar, which my instant response like most people was, “I'm okay.” And I wasn't. And the next thing they'd offer me was a drink. And I’d say yes to the drink and then continue to drink. 

I was in a really bad place and introduced alcohol into a position where I was seriously depressed with no support when I probably needed support for redundancy, drinking and all sorts of things, but I didn't even know what I was struggling with.

Dave: And do you think the whole male ego, and I guess it was highlighted even more with the whole rugby culture, do you think that was a contributor to you've just got to get on and get stuff sorted versus seeking help, which was always perceived as a bit of a sign of weakness?


Jason: Yeah, I hate the terminology ‘man up’ and things like that, but yes, at the end of it, I was 40, I'm a guy, I'm a very proud captain of the rugby club, you know, I was the happy face. And still, that smiley face was probably hiding quite a lot of pain. So I think that's very much the case. But also in reflection now having learned about mental health and self-care, I think we all go through struggles, it's just that sometimes, we find that it's really difficult as men to talk to another man about your problems, but I think we all need to just understand it's okay to have that conversation. And the fact that we are now more understanding about mental health, and it is okay not to be okay, to have a conversation with a friend or colleague or someone that's professionally set up to do that is a really important thing to know.

Dave: Just on that note, you've been through this difficult period and come out the other side, so how easy do you find it to talk about the issues around mental health? 

Jason: Yeah, so I got to the darkest place that no one should ever get to. So I actually took action with my life and I survived, I came through the other side. And I guess the first time I actually ever said it out loud, I was with my ex-wife and she gave me the number for the Samaritans. And I phoned them and it was a kind, soft voice at the other end, and I said what I'd done, and I said out loud. And just by even saying it to someone else, I now knew that I needed help, I needed professional help, I needed professional support, and I went to the doctor, got put on crisis watch, and went through many, many different levels of counselling. 

But it wasn't until - and this is my complete change of path in life, which is where I am today - I was struggling for work, and then an opportunity came up for six months maternity cover fundraising for a homeless support charity. And I applied for the job without any experience in fundraising or knowing the charity sector. And just having recently raised £3,000 for my mum's hospice while she was alive, I thought, you know, I could probably do this. So I got the job, and I ended up being there for seven years. So six months grew into seven years, and in all that time, especially when you talk about homelessness - and homelessness and mental health very much interlinked with how and where people could fall - to challenge people's unconscious bias, the stigma around homelessness is almost aligned to mental health, especially back then. So I started sharing my journey, my story of having everything and within six months, I've lost everything. So I started telling my story and sharing my story, and I felt more comfortable because I found purpose and hope, and actually seeing the impact that it had on other people to understand not only how people can fall but actually our own struggles as well. 

It was in one of those talks that one of the companies had Mental Health First Aiders and they said, ‘Can you talk about our Mental Health First Aiders?’ so I went, ‘What's a Mental Health First Aider?’ So I looked into what a Mental Health First Aid was, and then went on the course to train to become a Mental Health First Aid instructor myself. And so this is what I want to do in life. I want to go out and try to help people in the workplace, recognise when someone was struggling and how to have that conversation, or I'm struggling with how to have that strength to reach out to someone. And the important side to that is not only to give strength, but also for someone that's wanting to receive that conversation is how to listen non-judgmentally and how to listen in silence and actually allow pause so that when Jason actually says, ‘I'm okay’, there's a moment for him to say, ‘Actually, I’m not’ and reach out for greater and wider support.


Dave: So I understand the percentages of people struggling with mental health, so it’s one in four, and it's a hugely complex subject. The bit I'm not sure about, I'm sure you'll be able to explain, is how would you describe the signals to be aware of? Because we get highs and lows in life. So when you talk about your own story, was it an accumulation of all of those things which happened which led to that or any single event that had done it?


Jason: So going back to your first point, about one in four, so one in four was the figure pre-COVID. If you think about that pre-COVID, having gone through COVID and now the cost of living crisis, I personally think it's probably more like one in two, if not one in one. Everybody now is probably struggling a lot more with all sorts of things. Whether it’s lockdown, financial struggles, job risks, family situations and the personal side of things, sometimes you don't need to know signs in a way, you can just have a conversation with one or two people and either you're struggling or they're struggling. But for me, personally, I gained weight, I was probably unkempt, I probably was turning up and not really there or wasn't turning up at all, I was finding myself drinking alone, because I didn't want to go back to an empty flat. So I was staying in an environment which was dangerous for me, because I didn't want to go back to an empty flat. And then I went back to an empty flat and drew the curtains and was in quite a bad state. So there are many visual sides to someone struggling, but there are also many hidden sides to people struggling.


Dave: Yeah, actually, just on that, when I shared a little bit earlier about how our own family has been through a similar thing, and it was one of my relatives, and actually, he was in the Scottish Highland Games. So he was a big fella, well built, very fit, very healthy, had a good job, nice family background and all the rest of it. And I remember speaking to him one day, because I was really surprised when one of the other family members said that he was struggling with mental health, and the two just didn't go together. And when I spoke to him, he said, ‘Look, a broken arm is more visual. But with mental health, you just don't see it, it's what goes on inside.’ And you know, to the outside world, you don't always see what's going on in somebody's head.

Jason: No, and I was the big happy, fun character at a rugby club. And in times of my most pain, I used to have that smile on my face, because I was hiding it, and things can be going on behind the scenes that we're just unaware of. And we have also got to be understanding of this frame of reference of, you know, we all live different lives; something that may not be a stress factor to me actually is a massive stress factor for you. And so some things don't affect somebody one way and do affect somebody else in another way. And that's really important as well. 

On the flip side of that is that, when somebody is struggling, especially within the business world, if we sat down and you presented me with a problem, I'd be wanting to fix it. And actually, when someone opens up and shares that problem, it's very difficult as a problem fixer to try and continue to listen because you're automatically trying to solve their problem. And the most important thing is that Jason needs to find a way to fix his own problem. You know, Dave needs to go actually, this is where I am in life, and these are things I can do. But I need to find my own way and path to do this. You know, it's been 12 years now since I took actions not to be here, and every single day, like your physical health, our mental health is always there, and always changing. And we need to know when things are starting to go in the wrong direction. I've got things that I now know that I need to do to pull myself back into a more comfortable environment, a safer environment as well.

Dave: So when you talk to individuals at different groups and stuff, what advice are you providing them with, given that you've been through that journey?

Jason: I think the first thing is to have the strength to reach out for support. There is so much support around in front of us or online or on a call. You know, there are teachers, wellbeing teams or HR teams that are there to look after people, it's just that sometimes we don't find the strength or we don't feel the need, because we don't really know that we're struggling. 

So that's, I guess, the most important thing, to be able to talk and when things don't go right, find the strength to actually go, ‘Well, that didn't work. Let's go off in a different direction.’ And I'm here with Sport in Mind today, a charity that I've been following for six, seven years whilst I was working for another charity, because they do amazing things to get people out and be active and to build strength and confidence. You know, even people listening on this call will think actually, have I been outside today? Have I got some fresh air? Have I gone for a walk? Because even by just doing that, it will help your mood feel better. You know, we do find ourselves at the end of the day thinking I haven't even had lunch. We actually have to get up, have a break and go for some fresh air. It will make you feel better. 

So find things that you enjoy doing and do them and make time for the things that make you feel happy. I guess, especially with Sport in Mind, the journals that we keep is to create a log or have a log or a memory bank of actually, when I felt like this as in a low position, I went out to coach rugby or I went for a walk or I did the things that make me feel happy. So when I feel like I'm low, do something that makes you feel happy, and it balances itself out.

Dave: And tell us a little bit about how you got involved with Sport in Mind.


Jason: Well, I was giving a talk with another charity and Laura from Sport in Mind was co-presenting and I was just listening to Laura speak, and her passion around the charity. And it's a charity that was only set up 12 years ago, and the reason why it was set up was because Neil, the Founder, had a friend very similar to me that became very depressed, very lonely, very isolated. I'd stepped away from a lifelong club, because of a drinking culture that I knew was bad for me, but by doing that, I isolated myself from my lifelong friends. And Neil had a friend that was struggling and used to make sure that he was okay every day and eventually get them out to go for a walk. And then further along discovered that, you know, from a football side, you can create people to come together and just kick a ball about who may be struggling with mental health. And over the years, they've helped 17,500 people access sporting sessions, and it completely changes someone's mood and how they feel and how they can interact. 

An incredible charity doing amazing things. And the most important thing from where I am today, and where I was from striving to achieve double my salary and commission, is that every single day working for incredible charities like Sport in Mind, my role is fundraising and to raise awareness. But what I see, my commission in life is seeing what we do with the money that we raise and how we can help people have a better life through accessing activities.

Dave: Yes, I was going to ask you that actually, because I'm really big on transferable skills, and often people don't recognise them. But given that some of the things you talked about before, like independence, resilience, passion, it seems as if you've sort of channelled some of those within that passion of helping others out of situations to avoid them going through what you've gone through.

Jason: Yeah, I guess, going all the way back to my first manager, and he said, ‘Have you ever thought about getting into sales, because you're a good people person.’ And still today, you know, it's people helping other people. The end goal is helping other people get their lives back on track. And, you know, thinking about the skill set I have acquired over the years, I sometimes question myself with impostor syndrome, you know, how am I doing this? Why am I doing this? Actually, because I have the purpose, the passion and the skills, it's just that sometimes we don't believe that they're big enough, strong enough or suitable, but you find you can have great success, if you challenge yourself to do something that you really want to do. My path changed because of circumstances. I think some people are stuck in positions where they don't enjoy what they do, when actually, be brave, make a decision to change and you will find great success and purpose and passion in what you want to do.

Dave: And your life has actually impacted many others. You might not have imagined it at the time, but you could have saved many people's lives because they're avoiding going through the things that you went through where you didn't have help. And that you don't often realise those sorts of things, but they're the truths.

Jason: For someone that's been in the place where I've been, I live every single day trying to make a difference. You might have given someone the strength to do something, you just never know, but at least you’ve made a difference to someone to think slightly differently about where they are and how they can reach out. So yes, it does drive me. When I share my story, I'm giving parts of myself away. My old CEO said, ‘Be careful. Every time you talk and share, you're giving something away.’ But I guess I rebuild that by knowing that by doing that I'm helping someone else somewhere that I don't know reach out for support.

Dave: Well, and this isn't a bit of a tricky question, but given what you know now, would you have changed anything on that journey? Is this where you would end up? Would you have changed any of that journey?

Jason: I didn't enjoy my childhood at all, either at home or at school, and I left. But do I wake up every single day now with purpose and hope and quality of life and enjoyment? Yes. So you know, looking back, I wouldn't be here if I hadn't had that journey. It was a difficult long journey, but I am here now. And I'm loving what I do for an incredible charity and my purpose every day is to help other people. So I'd live that journey again.

Dave: So you haven't got that Sunday night feeling? I often speak to individuals, and they say, if on a Sunday night, you are thinking about the following weekend rather than looking forward to your week ahead, chances are, you're probably in the wrong job. So you look forward to your week ahead by the sounds of it?

Jason: I look forward to the next day. But yeah, I love what I do, and there is no better feeling than to enjoy your work and the people in it. And one thing about the charity sector, there are incredibly passionate people that care about other people in many, many different ways with all different charities. Meeting with yourself, you can tell there are lots of people out there who care. They're special people, and I get to meet those people every single day.

Dave: And you've talked a little bit about Sport in Mind, but how could others get involved in that? Because charities need funding, so how could others get involved in that?

Jason: Definitely. There are incredible charities out there. But I think from a charity's perspective, I'm Head of Fundraising for Sport in Mind, but I hardly ever ask for money. What I asked for is an opportunity to share our story to explain what we do to highlight the work and the impact that we have by helping those that we support. 

So I guess the first thing is to find out more about the charity you want to support, and Sport in Mind is an incredible charity, so look it up and find out what charities do. And there are many ways that you can either support by donation or get involved in volunteering. The other thing that we need, and this is the great thing in what we're doing today, is raising awareness through networks. So it might not be you directly, but how can you become an ambassador to highlight the work of Sport in Mind, and if you've got an interest in this and you want to know more and get involved, there couldn’t be a greater charity to link with. So find out more, contact me directly or through the website, and let's see how we can take this forward.

Dave: Yeah, it's been a truly inspiring chat. And I just genuinely appreciate your drive, your passion and all the great stuff that you do.